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Increase delete escape defeat [userpic]
by Increase delete escape defeat (mamasboo)
at October 15th, 2008 (09:45 pm)
current location: My Bedroom

Everyone here is talking about their numbers and wings but no one has really mentioned their variant: Intimate, Social and Self Preservation. Has anyone explored these?


Posted by: Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 07:21 am (UTC)

Oh yeah, I'm a sex (or, I prefer "Intensity") subtype myself. My friend Cat is a Self-preservation (or "Security") subtype 4 and I also know a social (or "Community") subtype 4. We have some fundamental differences in how we approach everything.

Posted by: The Madhouse Mannequin (pantoporcelain)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 04:31 pm (UTC)

Can you be all 3? Because I'm not really swaying one direction or the other - I fit into all of them.

Posted by: Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 05:13 pm (UTC)

No--. I mean, everyone has a little of all of them, but people definitely tend to favor one over the other two. It is possible to be extremely low on one of them as well.

When you walk into a party, what do you notice FIRST? The atmosphere and where the food and comfortable seats are? Who is dominating the room? Or who is the weirdest? You're going to favor one desire or need over the others most of the time.

Security subtypes are all about the reality of the situation and comfort. Community subtypes notice heirarchies and collective communications. Intensity subtypes notice situations that amp up the drama factor that most appeals to them.

Posted by: The Madhouse Mannequin (pantoporcelain)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 08:19 pm (UTC)

Well, when you bring up the party situation, in comparison to these descriptions of the 3 types I'm reading, the "Social/Shame" subtype caught my attention in a completely different way now than the first time I read it.

When I think about my initial reaction to being around any social gathering (especially with people I don't know), the first thing I do is turn into a great big ball of self-consciousness. All I can think about is how everyone else is seeing me, and how sure I am of how stupid I look when I talk... or when I just stand there in general. I never know what to do, how to react, even what expression to wear when I'm not reacting to anything. It's sad, the paths my self-consciousness takes me down in a room full of people, and what's worse is that just as soon as I catch myself thinking this way and force myself to stop and get into the atmosphere, I do it all over again, without thinking.

I also find myself picking out who I think is going to make fun of me, or understand me, or have anything worth while to say. Now maybe everyone does that to a certain extent around people they don't know, but sure enough as it says in this description, the minute I think I find someone who's "been there", I'm wearing my "originality" like a second skin, when initially I was scared shitless. I also like the wording this particular description uses: You may become an emotional truth-teller in the group. The minute I feel the least bit comfortable, it all just comes pouring out.
/end ramble

Thanks for helping me once again, Lucretia. :)

Edited at 2008-10-16 08:20 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
Posted at: October 17th, 2008 01:23 am (UTC)

Oooh! Thanks for the link--! *checks it out*

Hmmm... I like these descriptions, but I feel they're a bit incomplete and tending to emphasize the negative. I'd say they're accurate, they just don't go quite far enough in explaining...

For example, Security (Self-Pres) subtypes can be reckless, but most of the time they are EFFETE, decadent, almost seeming 7ish in their desires, although they are not for the thrill of shopping, but rather to have pretty things that reflect their specialness. Picky about their "required" environment, noticing every little thing about atmosphere, Security subtype 4s make me think of artists, clothing designers, and interior decorators. (My friend Cat IS an artist and is very much like this.)

Community subtypes deal with "shame," but ALL 4s have issues with shame, so that description is not very helpful. Security subtypes deal with shame by requiring, creating, and fostering highly aesthetically pleasing and unique things and places. However, social or Community subtypes deal with it by finding others of like mind and gathering together-- rather like Goths used to do, or some Renn Faire types, or any sort of social group that would appeal to type 4s (who aren't ordinarily very "group" oriented. In fact, they pretty much go for group only if they're community subtypes and find a highly weird, dramatic, and-- to them-- "elite" group.) They'll look around at a party for who might be like them. If they're concentrating on the Shame issue, which seems to hurt them more than other 4s, they'll also notice all the "Normals," the "Mundanes," and silently either envy them (as a whole, or their leaders) or dismiss them with contempt. The point is that they concentrate on the collective social aspect of shame vs. shamelessness.

Sexual or Intensive subtype 4s may also seem reckless, but it's not for the sake of being counter-phobic. They may feel shame, but not because they necessarily want to be included in a group. They want DRAMA, a story, a special someone, a reason, a significant meaning to be involved in, and they will pursue that with a sort of obsessive focus. And yes, intensive subtypes can be just as obsessed negatively and hatefull (DING! DING! DING!-- That's my dark side!) but when healthier, it's all about finding and relating to highly intriguing people and situations.

Does that help fill in the blanks a little better?

Posted by: helenatroy (helenatroy)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 07:38 pm (UTC)

Hello Lucretia!

Posted by: Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
Posted at: October 17th, 2008 01:07 am (UTC)

Oh HI!! *waves enthusiastically*

Posted by: helenatroy (helenatroy)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 07:36 pm (UTC)

Good point. & those subtypes really put a big color on how your basic/wing type manifest themselves. I'm a self-preservation supbtype. I hate it. It really holds me back. I also think that, in the same way Myers-Briggs says that each of us has all these variants, and can use all the modes, I think that we have an order of subtype. While I'm primarily self preservational, the next thing that manifests itself is the sexual or intimate style. My social lags pretty far behind.

I have kind of a theory, that subtypes cluster in types/wings - ie you'll find more social 4w3s than social 4w5s. Wonder if anyone else makes this observation.

Posted by: Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
Posted at: October 17th, 2008 01:26 am (UTC)
cover head

I totally notice what you do! Although, I've seen some weird varients that defy what you'd expect. For example, I don't have a connection to my 3-wing, yet I'm Sex/Intensive subtype and drawn to certain "elite" people and situations. (Of course, my idea of quality and eliteness doesn't often reflect status and money, which tend to be the draws for Type 3s.)

Posted by: Now I know how Joan of Arc felt (love_thief)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 08:56 pm (UTC)

I'm a soc/sp/sx 4w5. Sometimes I think I might be Self-pres, but ultimately my whole deal revolves around Social issues.

Posted by: Don't call us, we'll call you! (movingon_x)
Posted at: October 16th, 2008 09:20 pm (UTC)

sp/sx/so It's a close one with sp v. sx though.

Posted by: cebus_albifrons (cebus_albifrons)
Posted at: November 3rd, 2008 06:21 am (UTC)

I'm a so/sx/sp 4w5.

The Fauvres have a really good book on the variants...they compiled all the different literature on variants, and list the various traits of each type by variant. I found that to be really helpful information because if a person's type is in conflict with their variant, they might not recognize it at first. (For example, a social first withdrawn type.)

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