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ginger [userpic]
help me to think more logical
by ginger (hdandseek)
at December 6th, 2006 (07:13 pm)
curious

current location: bedroom
current mood: curious
current song: "Rain" by the beatles

Hey there...new to the community. I'm actually a 2 with a wing in 4, but interested in posting here cause the centers of both these types deal with feeling. Any of u know any good ways or resources to help me learn to think less with my feelings.

"My own brain is to me the most unaccountable of machinery-- always buzzing, humming, soaring roaring diving, and then buried in mud. And why? What's this passion for?"


Well, it's 4:30 am and I can't sleep as usual lately..my mind racing, and i feel that i need to work on thinking more logically; rather than emotional. I've been reading a book on upping my EQ, because i am way too sensitiveand that's what i need to focus on. However, this isn't really what i'm looking for...if u have a suggestionf or something to help me learn to think more with my brain or gut, then please send me a recommendation. thank u! p.s. i'm looking on the internet about how to think more rationally or objectively, but if there is anything spectacular that u know of, then kindly let me know. click here this page was interesting, and i appreciated the quote: "If you're basing your communications solely on logical, rational, reasoned facts... the brain is not your friend. Emotions are the gatekeeper... if you want in, you gotta talk to the amygdala."

another good one,click here had this tip:
"If you find it difficult to look at your negative thoughts objectively, imagine that you are your best friend or a respected coach or mentor. Look at the list of negative thoughts and imagine the negative thoughts were written by someone you were giving objective advice to, and think how you would challenge these thoughts.

These are some examples of how you can challenge negative thinking. You should be able to quickly see whether the thoughts are wrong, or whether they have some substance to them. Where there is substance to the negative thoughts, take appropriate action. In these cases, negative thinking has been an early warning system for you, showing where you need to direct your attention."

sometimes i may think too irrationally and act unappropriately, but i'm trying harder with each unfortunate circumstance to correct this behaviour. Could it all be that i think too much?

Lucretia Heart [userpic]
When the Illusions Are Gone...
by Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
at November 14th, 2006 (12:15 am)
pessimistic

current mood: pessimistic

Here's a Type 4 issue I don't think I ever expected to face-- getting slammed by a down spell in mood after I've worked hard to rid myself of Type 4 illusions.

Working on the Enneagram for nearly 14 years as a Type 4 has meant facing up to those issues that can hold a 4 back. Like needing to feel unique, or dwelling upon the melodramatic emotions of the past. It was very important to me to develop towards Health along the continuum, because at one time I was all the way down at the bottom: Level 9-- the Level of Self-Destruction. Pretty terrible place to be, really. By the time I had found the Enneagram, I had come to about health level 4 or 5, being very Goth at the time (1991) and quite into the "life as art & suffering" thing. I loved personality books and tests, and found the Enneagram to be exactly what I was looking for: a system that addressed the differences not only among types, but also along "happy and healthy" versus "messed up and mentally ill." THANK YOU! At last, a system that admitted that not everyone of even the same type was the same. Some people are assholes. Some are stuck in a rut of self-denial & self-hatred. Could we stop pretending everyone's okay and get to the bottom of how to fix these things? Once I had this tool-kit to work with, I did just that. I actually made it all the up to Health Level 2 after about 8 years or so. I was really proud of how far I'd come, and looked back upon my past selves with pity.

Cut to the present.

I've managed to live a life free from depression, despite all the obstacles, health-wise, financially, and relationally I've had to deal with over the last decade. Then, slowly, slowly, all the crap that started hitting me from a couple of years ago starts to catch up with me and I sink... down back into depression. Some days are better, and I think I'm going to pull myself out of it, but then the wave crashes back into me and I'm rolling around in the surf, helpless to get any real perspective or control. My coping skills are much better. My ability to effectively communicate is totally improved. My sense of self is still good-- I know who I am and I like that person. But none of that has staved off the fact that right now life is really hard to live just day to day. Everything and everyone seems to get to me too harshly, and I withdraw and quail before the big, ugly, darkness of it all.

Here's the problem. Once upon a time I had some rather comforting illusions about myself: That I really WAS unique. That I was special in some profound, if perhaps secret, very positive, way. That, yes, I was messed up, but it wasn't my fault-- the world wasn't sophisticated enough to understand the complex and much-suffering creature that was me. Now-- all of that is gone. I don't really think I'm that special. I mean, I am an individual, sure-- but I've run into lots of people that are quite a bit like myself in many ways. I know I don't have any special destiny for my life-- except what I create myself (and we all know that's not the same thing as a DESTINY that just falls into our laps like the heros from stories...) I can't excuse my own failures on the rest of the world anymore. And, though I don't blame myself for other people's problems, I also realize that my being healthier doesn't mean I get any more credit from those who are still messed up.

My precious little false beliefs that I used as a buffer between me and my own dark side and the often harsh world and its mainly indifferent inhabitants is gone. Now what?

Has anyone else faced this?

A. [userpic]
Movie Recommendation
by A. (biklar)
at May 11th, 2006 (10:35 pm)
current song: Hello Hello by Sophie Ellis-Bextor

One character in particular is very Type 4ish in personality. In fact the storyline is too...

I just saw it tonight although I've long wanted to see what it's about. It's rather good, full of suspense...and intense.

Wicker Park

A. [userpic]
Limerence
by A. (biklar)
at May 9th, 2006 (10:05 pm)
contemplative

current mood: contemplative
current song: Triple Combination by Captain Beefheart

Would you say that Type 4s are more likely to be limerant...extremely so to the point of feeling insane or totally obsessed?

Lucretia Heart [userpic]
Type 4 Wife & Type 6 Husband Dispute
by Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
at March 6th, 2006 (08:08 am)
annoyed

current mood: annoyed

The evening's events brought up another issue: The future plans of my husband's father to "party" at our house once the weather improves. Gerick, my husband, is four-square against turning our sanctuary into some oasis for his father's drunken revelries. He discussed what sorts of excuses he could make to get out of feeling obligated to indulge his father, like saying we lived near our landlords and couldn't afford to piss them off-- and I got very impatient. It is at such times as these that I feel my 4ness against his 6ness most accutely!

At one point I ranted: "Honey! I have to say I don't really care what your father thinks enough to feel I need to have an EXCUSE to say NO to him! Nor can I say that embarrassing ourselves to our landlords is even in my top 5 reasons not to do this thing your father's way. They have no right to expect us to cater to them anymore! The truth is-- and I'll damn well say it!-- that I don't like being around your father when he's drunk, PERIOD! And I don't mind telling him so. I'll say it as gently as I can, but I'll darn well say it! 'I love ya, Pops, but I can't be around you when you drink too much, so we're not inviting you to any sort of alcohol parties.' Whatever! And you know what? I'm ALLOWED to say that! And IF the subject comes up, you may expect me to say it, and-- what's more-- I'm not going to be shushed or corrected by you if it happens!"

He sense of propriety was rankled by my declaration, naturally. Yet, later, he admitted out of the blue that I had a point. The problem behavior was his father's problem. Our mentioning it honestly and making rules to avoid it was not. But, he admitted, it was just REALLY hard to make decisions based upon things like personal comfort or even just plain "right & wrong." Reputation to allies and authorities is nearly everything to him in social decisions. And I admitted that this difference between us never ceased to irk me. I know full well that my disdain for other's opinions in most situations can go too far and get me in justifiable trouble. But there are times when the compulsion serves me well. Like in standing up to people who are trying to take advantage of us-- it's much more difficult for Gerick than it is for myself. I can live almost comfortably with the open knowledge of others' dislike of me if it comes to that-- lady knows I'm used to it! Yet, for Gerick, this brings paroxyms of anxiety, for to be thought poorly of is the greatest of his insecurities. Having ME for a wife forces him into facing his fears of social retribution with regularity. For myself, I hate feeling pressured to consider others before myself in situations that are really not up to others at all. I know this difference between us is not likely to be resolved until our enneagrammatical health is mutually improved.

Lucretia Heart [userpic]
Feb. '06 Topic: Are Type 4s Gender Benders?
by Lucretia Heart (lucretiasheart)
at February 24th, 2006 (11:20 pm)
curious

current mood: curious

Once a month, I'm going to start bringing up a topic for this forum to discuss. I shall try for issues which are controversial or pushing the envelope to inspire us all to share our opinions. Hopefully we'll start to see a little more traffic here as a result as well!

This month's topic: Type 4s and their apparent tendancy to be more "androgynous" than the general population. I'm not talking about purposeful cross-dressing or transexual orientations, but rather that the lines between masculine and feminine are more blurred, regardless of sexual orientation.

I think it's obvious why Type 4 males would show this-- Type 4 behaviorisms (sensitive, artistic, dramatic, shy, symbolically expressive) tend to get "ghettoized" into the realm of the exclusively feminine in our culture. Men are supposed to be tough, logical, stoic, assertive, and practical-- and so 4 males would automatically not fit that classic picture right there.

What's interesting is how, despite Type 4 behaviors being seen as more traditionally "feminine," 4 females are quite often rather androgynous themselves. Even the ones who love romance seem drawn to dark themes, oddball ideas, and verbal self-expressions and thoughts that seem to fit better with more masculine ideals. Why is this?

In wardrobe choices, an individual male or female, in expressing themselves symbolically, may often find that their outerware seems to express something perhaps a little less proper than what is considered the norm for their gender. (Witness Goth guys or Grunge girls!)

Also, type 4 males and females both seem to get along with and "fall in like" with both sexes fairly equally. We don't seem to limit ourselves or discriminate in relationships with the sexes quite as sharply as others do. Many of us had this tendancy even as children. (For example, one day I could be climbing trees and getting into monster stuff with the boys, the next I'd be into melodramatic playacting and dolls with the girls.)

[Please feel free to discuss ANYthing about this topic or issues brought up in this post around the topic.]

davidfcooper.com [userpic]
2 question Enneagram test
by davidfcooper.com (davidfcooper)
at February 18th, 2006 (05:18 pm)

Read more...Collapse )

Leanne [userpic]
Flaubert's grasp of 4ishness
by Leanne (liliha)
at January 6th, 2006 (02:21 pm)

x-posted to typefours

Most descriptions of 4s describe us as having been emotionally damaged in some serious way as children. But I wasn't. No, really. I had a ridiculously placid childhood, with attentive parents, a nice neighborhood, a supportive extended family, and plenty of friends. I know--don't throw up yet.

So, I started reading Madame Bovary yesterday, perhaps the most 4ish book ever written, and I came across this passage that put it all in perspective:

Accustomed to peaceful sights, she was drawn to scenes of contrast and unrest. She liked the sea only because of its forms, and verdure only when it was scattered among ruins. She had to be able to extract some sort of personal benefit from things, and she rejected as useless anything which did not contribute to the immediate gratification of her heart, for her temperament was more sentimental than artistic and she sought emotion, not landscapes.

There are several paragraphs that follow this one, from Part I, Chapter 6, which continue to adeptly (I think) described the nature of a 4. (Though not in a particularly flattering way, I should add).

Rowan Ashe [userpic]
As someone so kindly pointed out... it's too damn quiet here...
by Rowan Ashe (rowan_ashe)
at July 24th, 2005 (02:12 pm)
geeky

current mood: geeky

So... let's discuss...

Star Trek and the Enneagram

Voyager's Fours

Deep Space Nine's Fours

The Specialist [userpic]
by The Specialist (zer0sleep)
at January 31st, 2005 (03:57 am)

What are the concrete differences between 5w4 and 4w5? It seems semi-related to the Myers-Briggs T versus F.

The Enneagram results side-by-side..Collapse )